Vendor & Vendor Sellers + Commissions

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5 years 2 months ago #310917

-- HikaShop version -- : 4.2.1
-- HikaMarket version -- : 3.0.2
-- HikaSerial version -- : 3.0.1
-- Joomla version -- : 3.9.11
-- PHP version -- : 7.2.18

Hi guys,
I need help on undertand if I'm on the right way. Any suggestions are welcome. Let me recapitulate:

- Portal with HikaShop + HikaSubscription + HikaMarket multi vendor where each vendor is paid directly

- Registrated Joomla Users can buy Subscriptions plans (that move their usergroup into specific ones) like Sub1 usergroup

- When "Sub1" a subscribed user will have discounted prices on all HikaMarket store. This can be setted through HikaShop products/categories prices settings

- When "Sub1" the user can also register him as Vendor thanks to the "Vendor edition page" menu and so be able to add his products to the HikaMarket Store

- If and when the subscription expires, the Sub1 user will be again just a Registered user. Please,
How to set that if it happen the Vendor store with all its products will be "closed" (or unpublished) ?

- I know that each Vendor can add and manage "users" and all of his user vendors access levels. Some of them could be just Sellers of that specific Vendor.

- This is different from the fact that some of the "Sub1" users could be just "Vendor Sellers" Portal. They have not "Products" to add into the HikaMarket Store (and they cannot add products), but they receive Commissions if someone buy products "through them" into the HikaMarket Store. So, the same Sub1 user could be a "Vendor" and/or a "Vendor Seller".
How and where can I (if I can) keep splitted this two ways ? Something where at the end I could have (or filter) two differents Vendor Lists: Vendors, Companies that have their Store with their Products and Vendor Sellers that they only suggest, make marketing to the HikaMarket Store.
Maybe, Could the Sub1 user buy an extra Product to began a Vendor Seller during his Subscription ? How ?

- How a "Vendor Seller" will receive Commissions ?
I'd like that when a Sub1 user began a "Vendor Seller" some personal Coupons, related only to that "Vendor Seller", are created for him. Where:
--- when the Coupon is used from any user a defined discount is applied on related products
--- when the Coupon is used from a user a Commission will be applied to the Vendor Seller by the Vendor (that is paid directly into HikaMarket and will pay back the Vendor Seller Commission)
--- the Coupones will be valid till the Vendor Seller is alive (is a Sub1 user), if he is not anymore Subscribed: the Coupones will be "disabled" and when the Registered user will pay again his subcription becoming again a Sub1 user the Coupones will be again "enabled" // OR // the Coupones will "expire" when expire the Subscription and when the Registered user will pay again his subcription becoming again a Sub1 user the Coupones will be created again.
Please, Can you address me on this process ?

Many Thanks in advance for support

Last edit: 5 years 2 months ago by joomleb.

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5 years 2 months ago #310920

Hello,

1 - HikaMarket do have a setting for the automatic vendor creation. That setting comes with a Joomla user group selection.
So if the user has a specific user group, a vendor will be created (or published) for him. If the user move out from the group, the vendor will be unpublished.

2 - I don't understand what you want to do ; nor the kind of split you want to perform.
Please note that HikaShop product bundle allows to create a product with multiple sub-products (which can be vendor products). HikaMarket will process the fees for these bundles, depending the vendors and the percentage they have in the bundle composition.

3 - I don't understand what "extra product" you're talking about and what is that beginning of vendor seller during a subscription.
Please clarify

4 - I invite you to see more about how payments works :
www.hikashop.com/support/documentation/1...or-presentation.html

5 - Vendors can only create coupons (or discounts) for their own products.
Since the coupon will be related to the vendor products ; it can be used only if the vendor is published because it's the only way to buy its products.

Regards,

Jerome - Obsidev.com
HikaMarket & HikaSerial developer / HikaShop core dev team.

Also helping the HikaShop support team when having some time or couldn't sleep.
By the way, do not send me private message, use the "contact us" form instead.

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5 years 2 months ago #310946

Hi Jerome,
in first of all many thanks for your attention, then:

1 - "HikaMarket do have a setting for the automatic vendor creation. That setting comes with a Joomla user group selection"
Thanks. I avoid the automatic vendor creation because:
- Registrated Joomla Users can buy Subscriptions plans (that move their usergroup into specific ones) like Sub1 usergroup.
- When "Sub1" the user can also register him as Vendor thanks to the "Vendor edition page" menu and so be able to add his products to the HikaMarket Store. Not all the Sub1 users want be Vendors and open their shop, if I use the automatic vendor creation the Sub1 user automatically is listed as "Vendor". Am I right ? OR Is there any other way ?
- If the user move out from the group (thanks to HikaSubscription), the vendor, "its shop" with all their prodiucts will be unpublished. Am I right ?

2 - "I don't understand what you want to do ; nor the kind of split you want to perform"
As far as I understand HikaShop can manage Affiliate (referring links) while with HikaMarket we can manage Fee and Commissions.
Now, on portal Sub1 user can become a Vendor and add its products.
But I have users that will be only "Sellers", they'll promote the products of all the Vendors on the HikaMarket Store offering Discount Coupones (as described above) and if the Coupon will be used they will receive back a Commissions on that/those products sells.

As far as I understood, to set and manage Commissions (to track commissions) the Joomla Portal User has to be an HikaMarket "Vendor". Am I right ?
But he has no products to add on HikaMarket, this is why I called them "Vendor Seller". They are sellers charged with promoting all the products of the portal. They will receive commissions for that.
"How and where can I keep splitted this two permissions ?" I mean, How can I forbid to these "Vendor Seller" usergroup to add Products and so on ? I need only to set, track and manage their Commissions giving them a Frontend way to see their commissions.
Maybe, Can I add them as "Users" of the Main Vendor (HikaMarket Administrator) ?
How to add a "Usergroup" as "Users" of the Main Vendor ?

3 - "I don't understand what "extra product" " - I mean:
- Registered users can buy a Subscription that move them into Sub1 usergroup
- if they want they can Register and become HikaMarket Vendors (to add products)
- if they want they can buy an "extra product", a "one time" product that will add them to the "Vendor Seller" usergroup.
The question here is, Please, How to set that if and when the main Subscription (that moved them into Sub1 usergroup) expire they will be removed also by "Vendor Seller" usergroup if added ?
To become again "Vendor Seller" they'll have to buy again the Subscription (to become Sub1 users) and then again the one time "extra product" (to be added to the Vendor Seller usergroup)

5 - "Vendors can only create coupons (or discounts) for their own products": Okay.
As Main Vendor I want create Coupones related to the singles "Vendor Sellers" and setting Commissions for them (just to track their commissions, not to pay. The payment will be done manually at the moment).
How to track "Vendor Seller" Commissions ?
I'd like that when a Sub1 user began a "Vendor Seller" some personal Coupons, related only to that single "Vendor Seller", are created for him. Where:
--- when the Coupon is used from any portal user a defined discount is applied on related products - Example: ProductA price 100$, user will receive a 3% discount and pay ProductA 97$ (each Vendor will be paid directly from users)
--- when the Coupon is used from a user a commission will be applied to the Main Vendor (so, each Vendor will pay back manually the Main Vendor commissions) and Main Vendor will pay the established part to the Vendor Seller by the Main Vendor - following the Example: Vendor has to pay 10% commission of the 97$ to the Main Vendor = 9.70$ - Main Vendor has to give the 50% commissions (5%) to the Vendor Seller = 4.85$
--- these Coupones will be valid till the Vendor Seller is alive (is a Sub1 + Vendor Seller usergroup user), if he is not anymore Subscribed: the Coupones will be "disabled" and only when the portal user will pay again his subcription + the extra product becoming again a "Vendor Seller" user the Coupones will be again "enabled" // OR // the Coupones will "expire" when expire the Subscription and when the Registered user will pay again his subcription becoming again a Sub1 user the Coupones will be created again.
Please, Can you address me on this process ?

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5 years 2 months ago #311005

Hi,

1.a That's right. If you have a listing of vendors, and that automatic vendor creation setting activated, then when the user is moved to the group, the user will be automatically added to the vendors listing.
There is no mechanism to let him choose.
Another way would require some custom development as far as I can see.

1.b That's right, the vendor and its products will be unpublished.

2. There is no way to have several vendors get a commission on the same product purchase. There is no cumulation system.
So, only the vendor selling the product can have a commission on the sale.
So I don't think that you want these "vendor sellers" to be HikaMarket vendors.
Instead, I would suggest to look into having them be partners of the affiliation system. With it, they can get commissions on the sales as partners and they can't create products. They can also review their commissions with the affiliate program page of HikaShop.
Supposing that you're selling a product 100€ and your vendor gets a 70% cut on the sale, he will receive 70€ and you 30€. Now if there is a partner attached to the order (because the user came from a partner, and supposing that the partner commission on sales from him is 10%, he will get a commission of 10€ as it's calculated on the total of the order.

3. First, there is the problem of point 1.a
Second, supposing that you go with the affiliate feature for point 2, there is no system to restrict the affiliate program to only some user group. So that would require some development.
And there is no system to remove someone from another user group when a subscription expires. So that would also require some development.

5. Supposing that you go with the affiliate system for "vendor sellers", you can create coupons in the backend of HikaShop and assign the coupons to partners so that the partner will be automatically added to the order if the coupon is used.
There is no system to let the partners create their own coupons.
Here I can see two solutions:
- you could use HikaSerial's voucher system to generate the coupons when the product to add the user to the "partner" user group is purchased.
- you could have the coupons generated via a plugin developed to do that after the product to add the user to the "partner" user group is purchased.
Disabling/removing the coupons when the user's subscription expires would require some development.
Regarding the repartition of the commissions, I described in point 2 how this is done. If you want to change the way the commissions are calculated so that a percentage of the partner commission would be taken out from the vendor commission, that would also require some development.



What you want to achieve is quite complex and specific to your need, so if you want to have exactly what you want, I'm afraid you won't be able to without having some plugin developed to manage the different rules you want to put in place.

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5 years 2 months ago #311030

Hi Nicolas,
thanks for the detailed answer. So:

1 - "There is no mechanism to let him choose" - Okay. Anyway I can always set a manual Vendor registration through the "Vendor edition page" menu (with Sub1 ACL permissions, only visible to them), Am I right ?

OR, Can I add nested free subscriptions ? I mean:
- Registered user pay "Subscription" and is moved to Sub1 usergroup
- Sub1 usergroup can buy a "Free Vendor Subscription" that will add them to the "Vendor" usergroup (the usergroup setted to automatically register them as HikaMarket Vendors)
- Can I add nested free subscriptions ? I mean to set "Free Vendor Subscription" expiration when the main Subscription expire... And / Or to be able to buy the "Free Vendor Subscription" at most until the "Subscription" expires
Example:
I buy montly Subscription on septemper 2019 for 12 months, it will expire on september 2020 - this will add me to Sub1 usergroup
As Sub1 usergoup I can see and buy the "Free Vendor Subscription". I decided to do it on december 2019 = I'll can buy at maximum 9 months, till the september 2020

2 - Recapitulating:
- HikaMarket Vendors will sell their products and will be paid directly
- I can set that each HikaMarket Vendor have to pay a Commission to the Main Vendor (HikaMarket administrator)
- Customers Sellers will become "Partners" of the entire HikaMarket Store (Main Vendor = all Vendors)
- Partners will promote the HikaMarket products offering Discounts Coupones
- Partners will be attached to the orders through the use of Discounts Coupones - only 1 Patner each Order, right ?
- Partners will receive commissions and they'll review their status with the affiliate program page of HikaShop
Am I right ?
Should Partners be paid by the Main Vendor HikaMarket or by each Vendor ?
Will Vendors have access to any Affiliate Sales page to check the Partners commissions ?

3 - "there is no system to restrict the affiliate program to only some user group"
Can I setup an Affiliate Subscription with two actions ?
Where buying the Affiliate Subscription the user is added to the Affiliate usergroup (can be useful for mailing etc.) and Customer user "Affiliate account active" is switched on.
So, when the Affiliate Subscription will expire the user will be removed from the Affiliate usergroup and his "Affiliate account active" will be switched off.

5A - "you could use HikaSerial's voucher system to generate the coupons when the product to add the user to the "partner" user group is purchased" = Please, Where can I read more about "HikaSerial's voucher system" ?

5B - "Disabling/removing the coupons when the user's subscription expires would require some development" = Please, Where can I have more informations on how to develop that plugin ? (Any suggestions and infos are welcome)

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5 years 2 months ago #311039

Hi,

1. This is possible:

- Registered user pay "Subscription" and is moved to Sub1 usergroup
- Sub1 usergroup can buy a "Free Vendor Subscription" that will add them to the "Vendor" usergroup (the usergroup setted to automatically register them as HikaMarket Vendors)
However, there is no mechanism to have the vendor subscription expire when the sub1 subscription expires. The vendor subscription will expire base on its own expiration period.

2. That's right. Partners will be paid by the main vendor. Vendors won't see the commissions of the partners. Vendors only see a sub order of the main order which only contain their own products, while the partner is linked to the main order.
Now, some page could be developed to display the commissions of the main orders but then you have to handle the fact that several vendors can be assigned to the same order (because there are products from different vendors in the order). And in that case, you either forbid the sale of products from different vendors in the same order, or you need to calculate the share of the partner commission for each vendor (so that's more development).

3. There is no mechanism to activate the affiliate program or deactivate it based on the user groups of the customer.
You could potentially setup a mass action, checking every hour for the users groups to change the value of the column in the hikashop_user table to activate/deactivate the table. That however will be problematic once you start having a few thousands of users as it could be a lot of data to process for the mass action. A development would be necessary to make it viable in the long run.

5.a It's basically this plugin from HikaSerial that you need to setup:
www.hikashop.com/support/documentation/1...ugins-coupongen.html
And you want to attach it to a "pack" and attach the "pack" to the product. That way, when the customer purchase the product, a serial is generated by the pack which triggers that coupon plugin to generate the coupon.

5.b So far, there is no documentation on this. The only page of information I could find about this is here but it's written in French:
www.hikashop.com/forum/18-support-en-fra...ne-souscription.html
Basically, you'll want to implement the trigger onAfterSubscriptionsExpire(&$expired_subscriptions, $plans, $users) where $expired_subscriptions is an array of subscriptions which just expired, $plans is an array of plans which generated these subscriptions and $users is an array of users affected by these expirations.
I would recommend to actually look at the code in the file plugins/hikaserial/groupsubscriber/groupsubscriber.php which is the HikaSerial plugin which handle adding a user group when a subscription is created and removing it when the subscription expires.

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5 years 2 months ago #311063

Hi Nicolas,
thanks for helping on this!

1 - This is why I asked: Can I add nested free subscriptions ? I mean to set "Free Vendor Subscription" expiration when the main Subscription expire... And / Or to be able to buy the "Free Vendor Subscription" at most until the "Subscription" expires
Example:
I buy montly Subscription on septemper 2019 for 12 months, it will expire on september 2020 - this will add me to Sub1 usergroup
As Sub1 usergoup I can see and buy the "Free Vendor Subscription". I decided to do it on december 2019 = I'll can buy at maximum 9 months, till the september 2020

2 - "Now, some page could be developed to display the commissions of the main orders" = Not a must, what is important here is that the Main Vendor (that have to do calculation > pay > and set those commissions as "paid") and the Partner (who has to be paid) can see a "affiliate program page", no more at the moment...

3 - "There is no mechanism to activate the affiliate program or deactivate it based on the user groups of the customer" = This is why I asked you (sorry for my English): Can I setup an Affiliate Subscription with two actions ?
- Where buying the Affiliate Subscription the user is added to the Affiliate usergroup (can be useful for mailing etc.) + Customer user "Affiliate account active" is switched on.
- So, when the Affiliate Subscription will expire the user will be removed from the Affiliate usergroup and his "Affiliate account active" will be switched off.
This means that I should be able to have a "Customer user > Affiliate account active: on / off" subscription action, is there ? If not, I think that it cold be the most logical (useful for all the users) development solution for the future, Are you agree ?

"You could potentially setup a mass action" = if I understood well I can use it to activate/deactivate the "Customer user > Affiliate account active" into the hikashop_user table, Am I right ?

5A - Thanks, Where the "Discount coupon id" selected (Template Coupon) should be setted as "Force affiliation to > Current customer partner", Am I right ?

5B - Thanks! I'm going to study it :)
Meanwhile, Could I use a weekly Mass Action to do it ?

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5 years 2 months ago #311067

Hi,

1. I already meant to say "no, that's not possible" in my previous message.

3. Well, you're the first one asking of having the affiliate program activate/deactivate when a subscription is created/expires. So I don't think it's useful to the point where it's something important to add to HikaSerial. Now, I'm not the developer of HikaSerial, it's Jerome, but he is in Holidays so I can't speak for him.
To me, it sounds like it would better fit as a side plugin.

Regarding the mass action: yes. However, the catch is that there are no "after a subscription is created" and "after a subscription expires" in the mass action system. So you would have to use "every hour" trigger with a filter on the user group on all the user accounts of the website. So this means that the user won't be directly in the affiliate program as it will happen only after the mass action has been triggered once every hour.

5.a That's a good point. You would actually have to set that to the partner you're targetting dynamically. And that's not possible. So I'm afraid that the HikaSerial coupon generation road won't be possible.

5.b Mass actions cannot create coupons.

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5 years 2 months ago #311094

Hi Nicolas,

1 - Sorry

3 - Thanks. I'll stay tuned waiting your news to have instructions on the best way to focus a development...

5A - "You would actually have to set that to the partner you're targetting dynamically. And that's not possible"
So, Please, What does "Force affiliation to > Current customer partner" mean ? (I'm not able to find nothing on documentation)

5B - "Mass actions cannot create coupons" = Yes, the issue here were not to create coupones, but to publish / unpublish them triggering the partner "virtual" "usergroup" I can create (to have all parners in a usergroup is always useful, to manage mailing for example...)
Can I use Mass Actions to publish / unpublish discounts / coupones ?

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5 years 2 months ago #311100

Hi,

3. If you want us to work on the development of such plugin for you, that's something we could do. But if you already look at adding/removing the user group of the user when the subscription is created/expires, handling the user access to the affiliate program to in that same code should be easy (just a MySQL query on hikashop_user when the user group is added/removed basically).

5.a this allows you to force the affiliation of an order with that coupon to a specific partner.
The problem is that what you want to do is not to force the affiliation to a specific partner but to the partner for which you generate the coupon. So the partner selected in that setting needs to be selected dynamically when the coupon is generated and HikaSerial's coupon generation doesn't support that.

5.b No, mass action cannot manipulate discount/coupon data.
You can see the "data" selector when you create/edit a mass action (with the choices product, user, address, order).
Each choice correspond to a mass action plugin that was created for it (with a lot of code) to manage the different triggers, filters and actions for that type of data.
To be able to manipulate discount/coupon data in mass actions would require the development of a similar mass action plugin for discounts/coupons.

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