Same retail price but different tax for EU country

-- HikaShop version -- : 2.3.4
-- Joomla version -- : 3.3.6

Hi,
since the EU changed their taxation for virtual products and the VAT for software, ebooks etc. need to be paid to the financial department of each country, we need to prepare our shop for that. We would like to have one retail price for all our customers throughout the EU. The tax should be calculate from the product price inclusive VAT so that all customer have the same price.
Example:
Product price is 99 €. In Germany we charge 19 % VAT. So the net price is - 83,19 €. In Belgium we have 21 % VAT. So our net price will be 81,81.

How can I do this?
Thanks
Roger

Hi Nicolas,
thanks for your answer. Will that feature be part of Hikashop in the future? We are probably not the only users who have to handle VAT in the EU for virtual products. With that new law in place it is rather difficult and a solution would be very welcome.
Anyway, I contacted Obsidev already to ask for a quote, if they develop a plugin...
Cheers
Roger

Hi Nicolas,
I hope that more shop owners would like to offer the same retail price all over Europe. Showing the net price and add VAT after is not a solution when you sell products for instance in Germany to end users. By law you have to show the price including VAT. So, I can show a price with some VAT on it and depending of the users address the VAT will change during checkout. In our case a software that costs 99 Euros in Germany will cost 101,30 in Spain and so on. I find that rather irritating, because you can't see the retail price including tax for your country before you start the checkout process. You at Hika sell probably mainly to programmers and webdesigners who run a business. In that case clients are used to see a net price without VAT. I think that a lot of people are not aware of this yet and will be desperate for a solution at the beginning of next year.
Until then we have to prepare a hack of the file you mentioned earlier. This new law doesn't make life easier....
Cheers
Roger

Hi,

We also need that feature in our shop. We are implementing the new EU directive at the moment and are adding all EU VAT rates (sigh...), but we need to keep the sales price with VAT equal for all customers for several reasons.

I also assume it would be wished by many other European shops, as prices incl taxes are those displayed to the customers and they need to look good, as opposed to places where the displayed prices are excl. taxes like in the US.

@earmaster
the tax from which country rate (server , product location , buyer , domain name , company, final product location =consummer) ?

==programming javascript=
you can create a form associate with a script
-form ll show list of country( but seem only one ..read after ) to select one and ll store information in the client as a cookies
the selected item have to ask the value rate apply to the server
-the script ll be load each time price appear in the page base on css selector
if cookies is set and page contain price then the script ll have to locate all the price on the page and apply VAT refer to cookies values and information attach to product .

information could be
---- transfert using HTML data-* like data-countrysubtax="reduced"
----format in JSON
----serialize in a cookies

---

come from 3 related fields : country subtaxname subtaxnamevalue
select country and subtaxname refer to the same value so ratevalue could be store in anothers table with SQL query that use link 2 tables . Here we seethat the product share the same subtaxname but perhaps case exist where this product have another subtaxname like reduced ( that could have one value or 2 values !!! subsubtaxname )





I was thinking the rate of tva was the same for each country in europe but not .
We use the same subterm for tva (in french : réduit, super réduit .. ) to compare beetween european country but the rate apply to those term are not the same and perhaps same product in different country ll not have the same rate !! ( there is also some exception per country )
see difference between e-commerce provider and reseller

==VAT rate from which country ==
if i am in USA for holiday and I buy a product locate/store in Danemark using a e-commerce server hosting in UK . I want to recieve the product in france . The law ( european ? french ? ) seem to say that the VAT apply is refer to hosting country .. so UK VAT rate is apply not france or Danemark ( i know i can use a VPN for Server but virtual location not physical /real !! ) .
the rate value per country is summarize in european documentation pdf .
If e-commerce need my mobile phone attach to it country ; i can buy virtual phone number specific for country since network control seem take care of number location not the location of the phone !!
So i really don't understand the issue with VAT in this post ? ( B2B question behind this question ? )
www.douane.gouv.fr/articles/a10753-achat...s-entre-particuliers



==best vat hosting rate ==
refer to european information the best hosting country server vat can be define MALTA
some hosting webservice have server locate in malta here
The super low rate is only for healthcare medecine drug ( france are the winner ! )
VAT is only a problem for customer less for company
andrewminalto.com/ebay-tax-mistake/
www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1332273



The European union seem to be aware of malta case

==Question relative to unit price from the capture screen ==
Does all the value relative to price label mean without tax ?
In the capture screen there is Price panel whith a item Price with tax !!
what is the behaviour of this panel ? (de)
why other price item don't have like in the panel the item (de) "price with tax "?
in which context the retail price is not use ? (a)
How is apply the tva to product that don't have tax information like in panel prices ? ( de)

Is there an official link to europea law that say that company must manage many rate country TVA ?
europa.eu/youreurope/business/vat-customs/buy-sell/index_en.htm
Each server locate in one country has to manage it own country rate VAT !
Does server are in the clound so in any country and then no country ?
It is not possible to have many country location server with one hikashop instance !


I am not a lawer so i not affirmative ..... and law can change
regard's

@lionel75: the old EU regulation had you apply the VAT of the seller when selling to end-users based in the EU, like you mention. That was nice and easy. But now, from January 2015, electronic goods must be sold to end-users with their own local VAT applied.

This means that at the moment, if you are in France, you will sell with 20% VAT to end-users from Germany, Sweden or Spain. In January 2015, you'll have to apply the local VAT rate of each buyer.
It's a bit like in the US, but the big difference is that shops in the EU are forced by law to display prices including VAT when selling to private persons: so one product will have dozens of possible prices displayed in a shop, depending on where the buyer is located.

Having to set prices in Hikashop from the Excl VAT price only means that you have no control over the price that will be displayed to private customers in the EU.

We can't live with products sold for € 103.45 or €102.60 instead of a neat-looking €99 or €100, so I think we will just use a workaround and hope the feature will be added eventually.

@earmaster
thank's for your reply ...and "this post is about VAT for virtual product ... no shipment "

a) but refer to my question where i buy outside my native country .......what mean the "rate of the buyer" ? you say located ..but thus doesn't mean the product ll be send where the buyer is located !! the buyer move so does it mean my native country where i live and pay the more tax in the case i have 2 passport ? even i am on holiday in india ? so ithink it ll be where the bill ll be send or credit card bank country account ll be use .

If you look at the max min rate for only reduced and standart subrate value ; you ll see that there is a difference from 72% and 28% .This was like this before 2005 and after 2005 nothing ll change ......

A company in UK buy a product in UK (VAT 5%) to sell buy internet at 100 € ( not vat ) to hungarian people in hungary ( send in) ( VAT 18%).

b) Where goes the 13 % ( = 13 €) ?

c) if the web price in uk country must show 105 € ( vat uk ) the hungary buyer ll show 118 € ( vat hungary ) .Does hikashop already manage this ?

d) how company could set/define an average price if they have to take in account the high low valeur rate that exsit in some country ? The company ll pay the tax for the end user and loose money ? if company set the price for all european country to 110€. hungarian people win 8 € ! and UK people ll pay more . Does the company has to pay to his goverment the VAT of his country or the total VAT pay buy the buyer ? . In a way Apple and Adobe already set an international price that are unit money country free 500$ = 500 € !!!

e) i think european country has define something for virtual product .
Does every countries under european law for apply the same rate value for all virtual product ?
Does the tax is standart or reduced or specific
Does the tax value is the same ?
base on previous post "99 Euros in Germany will cost 101,30 in Spain" i don't find the value by compute myself refer to table find in the european website
spain 4 10 21 and germany 0 7 19 so it cost more
19 to 21 => (99*100/119) + (99*100/119) *21/100=100.66
7 to 10 => (99*100/107) + (99*100/107) *10/100=101.77
Does the price take in account only the VAT because i don't find the exact value using reduced or standart VAT rate !!!
Perhaps software are special product and neither standart law for product with reduced or standart rate value have to be take in account ?

regard's

Hi Nicolas,
I tried only Jerome, but he has not enough time to do it at the moment. Can you recommend somebody, who has the time and the knowledge to help out?
Cheers
Roger

I'll proactively answer this referral to Polished Geek. While we see a lot of value in creating a "single public price" with VAT backed out behind the scenes, we will not be able to take anything like this on until February or March at the earliest.

We are focused through year end on completing the AvaTax global tax connector plugin for HikaShop, which will support the proper calculation of VAT for digital/virtual products under the new tax law. We are partnering with Avalara to get this ready for the 2015 changes.

Thanks for letting me know Polished Geek.
Looks like nobody has the time to do it until January 1. I didn't expect that this feature is becoming such a big problem.
If anybody has a solution, I would be happy to be kept in the loop...
Cheers
Roger

Thanks a lot for the last update, problem solved!

Here the new link for hikashop 2.3.5 about floating price concept ( tax vat +price bnon vat = floating price).

The documentation refer to VAT of business ! . HKS is for commerce that target end user ( B2C ), but does HKS is compatible with commerce beetween professionnal ( B2B) ! ?
This must be undertsand that HKS support VIES

here php code for check VAT id using VIES server ?!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_val...Stop_Shop_.28MOSS.29
www.digitsmith.com/ecommerce-definition.html
ebiz.pwc.com/2013/08/the-vies-report-wha...ndors-should-use-it/

Hi
I undertand better why some HKS user want to use Joomla and extension like a framework /layer using SOAP REST in a one page application like angular .
B2B open a new market that turn around CRM ERP EDI ...... but joomla need to support natively rest/soap to avoid each extension implement their own way . I think HKS must focus ( ads) on that side since some BIG business software tool ( SAP ?) for B2B begin to implement B2C functionnalities .

Even that ... I ll be more explicit about my question : So when user create an account , they can enter information in HKS about the context : they ll buy product/services as a consumer or a business . In case of business i expect that hikashop add field relative to user bussiness ( like vat ) and total price is compute regard's the context ( with some new line specific to B2B, financials rules define by law ) ! The official price beetween B2C and B2B should not he same ..B2B can buy and sell the product but not as the same price . access to B2B price is subject to negotiation NDA and access to product need validation/ACL before have acces to product ( at B2B price) ....... So i expect HKS support both B2B B2C in this way but don't read a post about this in HKS forum . In B2B the vat must appear in the bill , invoice , payment receipt .

really great