Wrong discount calculation: 10 days later and still waiting a reply!

-- HikaShop version -- : 3.0.1
-- Joomla version -- : 3.7.0
-- PHP version -- : 7.0.18
-- Browser(s) name and version -- : tested on latest versions of most browsers

Hello Nicolas.

I reported you a serious bug 10 days ago, by sending you two detailed emails. I also left a post on the forum (and got an unacceptable reply from one of your colleagues).

Nicolas, you emailed back 8 days ago, asking me to wait because it would 'require several hours of debugging'. Since then I've emailed you twice but got no reply. I've been a customer for 3 years but I never remember such a delay.

Can you please update me?

This is a major problem that ruins the coupon strategy for taxable products.
I am attaching another image that shows the issue. Here you see a screen capture from the checkout page.

A 50% coupon has been applied to this product whose original cost is 14.50 euros.
As you can see, Hikashop applies the wrong discount (8.99 euros instead of 7.25 euros).
Consequently the company is losing money and credibility.

As I mentioned in my previous attempts to contact you, discounts have been set to be applied before taxes, in Hikashop's configuration.

I am looking forward to hearing from you in a reasonable time.

Kind regards
Panos Efstathiadis

Following my previous post, I created a coupon code so that you can test the issue for yourselves.

Go to this product page, add any of the two product versions (for Photoshop or PS Elements) to your cart, and proceed to checkout:
www.panosfx.com/commercial-free-photosho...tions/puzzle-effects

Use the coupon code shape in the checkout page.
It applies a 50% discount.

If you are a customer from the EU, you'll be given the wrong discount.
Non-EU customers won't see any issues, because no tax (VAT) applies.

Thanks for checking and replying back.
Panos

Hello?

Sorry, the coupon is active again. Can you please try again?

It certainly looks like a bug. Let me explain:
As you know, there is a setting in Hikashop's configuration, that determines whether the discounts are applied BEFORE or AFTER taxes:

In Hikashop 3 this setting doesn't work! Although I have selected BEFORE, Hikashop will calculate the discount AFTER taxation.

Here is another screenshot that shows the error.

I have created a coupon that applies a 33.33 discount, when a user adds 3 products to the cart.
So, in this example, the discount should be 12.30 euros ( 12.30 x 3 x 0.3333) .

But as you see, Hikashop calculates the discount, by applying the local VAT rate!
I am reminding you that I've set the discount to be applied BEFORE any taxes.

I hope it makes sense now.
Panos

Philip,
I sent you the backend login credentials to the hikashop contact email.

thanks
Panos

Hello Philippe.

Unfortunately it doesn't work well.
It worked well on your side, simple because there was no VAT tax in your case (I assume that you do not reside in an EU country, otherwise Hikashop would automatically geolocate your order).

I created the very same order, like in your example.
Here is a screenshot. You can easily see the problem.

The 33.33% discount should apply BEFORE TAXES.
Hikashop should then apply the local VAT (24%).

The correct calculation should show this:
Subtotal: 36.90 €
Discount: 12.30 €
VAT: 5.90 €
Total: 30.50 €

This is exactly how Hikashop 2 calculated the total cost. And as far as I know, calculating the discounts BEFORE TAXES is the legal way to do it, in the EU. Plus, with the wrong calculations in Hikashop 3, the company is losing a considerable profit!

If I were to describe the bug in one line, I would say this:
The "Apply Discounts : Before taxes / After taxes" setting in Hikashop's configuration doesn't work properly in Hikashop Business 3.1

Hi Philippe.

First of all, I'd like to thank you very much for your involvement and help! This is frankly very much appreciated, because this is a serious issue with details that may have legal implications for us:

I did as you said, and now the total cost (WITH tax) is the same, as the one calculated in Hikashop 2.

I have a huge concern however, about certain legal details.
There is a huge difference on how Hikashop 2 and 3 behave: In Hikashop 2 any coupon discounts shown in the shopping cart, apply to the net prices (WITHOUT taxes). I don't know why you had to change this in Hikashop 3.

What's the legal implication of this change:
The law says that the discounts printed on the invoices, must be calculated on the net product prices! So the discount shown on the customers' screen, is different than the discount shown on the company invoices. In fact, the discount on the invoice is lower than what we advertise on the site.

One workaround in order to avoid any legal pitfalls, is to display a note on our sites saying that the coupon discounts apply to the total cost. Things would be much easier though, if we could change the behavior of coupons, like it was in Hikashop 2.

A few days ago, Nicolas told me that he wasn't sure what was causing the issue, but it was probably due to things being done differently in Hikashop 3. This seems to be indeed the case. I do not understand why the particular coupon behavior had to change. I hope you'll find a way in a later version release, to give us control over this behavior!

Merci
Panos

Dear me, I am looking at the checkout page again and I am wondering:
What on earth is shown here? Do we really want to confuse the customer and drive him away?

Here's what the checkout page shows:

When the average person does the math, he/she will think: 36.90 - 15.25 + 5.19 = 26.84 euros.

Then he will most probably think: why on earth does the total cost equal to 30.50 euros then?
And he will probably abandon the purchase, before I explain him how the coupon works in this cart!

Question:
Can we afford driving customers away, because of this change in Hikashop 3?

For goodness sake! An e-shop software is supposed to help us sell, not give us struggles!

Hello panefs,

I can confirm the bug on your webshop. I applied the 50 % discount as a non eu customer (Norway), and everything is ok. But with an EU address (Denmark) the same discount is not applied correctly.

Hope this will help slightly, given the bug is obvious.

Regards,

Martin

Hello Philip.

Philip wrote: So, why don't you choose to display product price with taxes?

For the same reason your company (Hikari Software) doesn't display them with taxes, on your site:
the customers who visit the sites of software vendors, are both businesses[AND individuals, from different countries. In this case we communicate the net prices and notify individuals that their country VAT applies to the total cost (exactly like you do on your site). And when we talk about discounts, these apply to the net prices.

Philip wrote: Display product price without VAT can be confuse for customers but this choice must remain a choice for owner shop.

Philip, your company is also displaying prices without VAT and your customers are not confused.
I, and nkries, both say another thing: the problem is in the way the discount is displayed! What nkries calls a bug is technically not a bug, since this is how you designed Hikashop 3. This doesn't mean that the design is right, however. What I and nkries tell you is: look at the cart, it is weird! It is confusing!

I would understand it, if Hikashop worked like this all these years.
But this problem appeared only in Hikashop 3. I know, because I've been your customer for some years. I wouldn't, had Hikashop been working like this in the previous versions.

Question:
Is it so difficult to give us the option to apply coupon discounts before taxes?

Merci
Panos

Hello Philip.

I am sorry, I don't mean to offend you, but you are wrong. The coupon behavior you describe ONLY applies in Hikashop 3. Please, look at the proof below. The screenshot speaks for itself. It's the same coupon that applies the 33.3% discount.

I took the Hikashop 2 screenshot a few minutes ago, by reverting my server temporarily using a backup from May 4 (taken before I upgraded to Hikashop 3). I was using the latest version of Hikashop 2 Business then. FYI, the coupon settings applied to the "Electronic goods and services" category, while the discounts were set to apply before taxes, in the general configuration.

I've been trying to explain you that in the business world there are companies selling B2B (business to business), others selling B2C (business to customer), others selling both. If you sell B2C only (e.g. clothes to customers) then yes, you are right, people expect the discounts to apply to the total cost. But when B2B is involved then the discounts are communicated before taxes. And this could certainly be set in Hikashop 2. The cart / checkout page in Hikashop 3 gets people confused (like 'nkris' did).

If you dispute this screenshot, then I feel there is nothing else I can do, to convince you that this coupon behavior is related to Hikashop 3. If you like, I can revert the site again (using the Hikashop 2 backup) so that you see for yourself the truth. But if you insist then I would kindly like to ask you to help me re-install Hikashop 2, without losing any sales records made with Hikashop 3. I don't care about the money I paid, I just want a system that works as before.

Hello Philippe.
It's Hikashop 2.6.4. I can't see the build here. I can email you the zip file, so that you check the build, if you wish.

Thanks
Panos

EDIT: this is how the coupon discounts behaved in every version of Hikashop 2, including the last build of Hihashop 2 that you released (2.6.4).
I used to update my e-shop regularly, by downloading the latest version of Hikashop Business directly from your site.
So the answer is that this coupon behavior remained the same until the latest Hikashop 2 build. It changed in Hikashop 3.

Hello Philippe.
I have already re-installed Hikashop 2. I am sorry but this is not about "some changes with the HikaShop 3.x version". I just regret the money I spent to upgrade to Hikashop 3, a version that proved chaotic on our side.

Panos